The one thing that I used to think humans did that animals didn't, was trade. Taxpayers pay me to teach their high school students and in return I use that money to buy food, clothes, etc. But it seems even this assumption was wrong:
They both use their labor and capital to work together for a mutually beneficial trade. The second half of that video even shows some animals have an understanding of fairness. So what is it that separates humans from the rest of the animal kingdom? Relationship. Intimate, long lasting, trusting, educational relationships. Human beings, using that long list of things we do better (language, sacrifice, hobbies, tools, etc), are able to create complex societies of cooperation. It is for this reason humans are able to have culture, art, and even religion. Here's one last experiment that will both show you what I mean (listen to the explanation at the end):
Fascinating stuff, Harrison. Excellent post.
ReplyDeleteThis point about teaching and relationships I have to disagree with though. To me it is just like the list of things you mentioned at the beginning -- it is not that humans are unique; it is just a matter of *extent to which*. So yes, humans are better at teaching/learning and they have longer, more meaningful relationships, but that does not mean there is an absence of these things in all other animals.
This is one of the biggest issues holding me back from mainstream religion -- I just do not see anything special about humans. Looking forward to discussing it with you further.
Thanks for your thoughts Justin. I understand what you mean, and I'm willing to admit that we may be just the top of a larger spectrum of the animal kingdom. However, on that spectrum there is a huge divide between humans and say chimpanzees, than chimpanzees and say dolphins. That difference isn't trivial.
ReplyDeleteWhat do you (both) think about the issue of the soul? Do humans have souls? Do non-human animals have souls?
ReplyDeleteI believe humans have souls (it's mentioned a lot in the Bible), but it is difficult for me to understand what is meant by the word soul. Is it something we have or something we are? My current understanding is that the soul and body are the same or at least tied together tightly and that we will have both in the "new earth" or heaven. One of my big theology gaps comes in my understanding of life after death now, before the second coming of Christ and the "new earth". We know that we are "sleeping" because Jesus sees Moses (whose body was long a decomposed) during his transfiguration. But we also have Enoch who was brought up into heaven body and all.
ReplyDeleteMy gut feeling is that if animals will be in this new earth, then they have a soul (or are souls) in at least a similar way that we do. Isaiah 65: 17-25 describes Christ coming back and mentions animals. So either some/all animals die and go to the "new earth"/heaven or there are some already there.
All that said, I think the soul is hard to quantify as different from personality or character, so I'm not sure how helpful this whole comment was (ha).
I agree that it is hard to know what soul means. The brain has amazing plasticity which might be confused for soul. But I find it hard to believe there is some "mind" outside of the brain simply because when the brain fails, so does everything resembling a soul.
ReplyDeleteThere is a really interesting lecture on the subject from a Yale psychologist and admitted atheist: http://academicearth.org/lectures/foundations-this-is-your-brain
I've been mulling over what I could say to make your Justin W.'s think humans are special and here is what I've got. Even from an evolutionary point of view (if you have one) humans are leaps and bounds farther along than any other species in our known universe. Not only does Earth have just the right qualities for life, but humans are able to think and love in ways not even comprehensible to other life forms.
ReplyDeleteBy nearly any measure of intelligence, no doubt humans win. But this difference in intelligence -- although it allows for more advanced forms of communication, introspection, and love -- in no way implies that there is anything special about humans. And that more than the differences between humans and other animals is the problem I am struggling with.
ReplyDeleteThe problem I have with the creationist view is that it generally assumes humans were put on Earth as is. But even in recent years -- this blip in the history of the universe -- we are observing considerable increases in IQ. Every generation, on average, is something like 3 IQ points smarter than the previous. This is just one bit of evidence that we are not the pinnacle of evolution. I could also point to prehistoric evidence, the size and scale of space and time, and the upcoming genomic revolution for evidence that we are just one arbitrary point on the timeline of evolution, just like all the other animals.
I'm right there with you on the humans getting smarter/richer, but I'm yet to see proof of better. I read recently (though I couldn't find) how humans thousands of years ago were stronger and faster than today. Which makes sense. To be successful in 8000 BC you needed to catch dinner. In 2009 you need a high IQ and critical thinking skills.
ReplyDeleteAgain I agree that humans are just another life form on Earth. I'll also agree that there isn't much evidence for complete human uniqueness. BUT People care about dogs less than roaches. I think it's because they are far down the spectrum too. The difference between the life of a man is radically different than the life of a chimp. We may be on the same spectrum, but the space between us on the spectrum designates more worth.
Here's another example: Food for Grooming
ReplyDeleteMaybe my first instinct of trade was right and that video is just a rare trained example:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v462/n7269/edsumm/e091105-01.html
nice videos
ReplyDeleteThanks. Please check out the rest of the series.
ReplyDelete